Usual suspects coming out the woodwork who've had it in for Mac from Day 1, and are now claiming to have been right all along after 3 Grand Finals, 2 Challenge Cups, a League Leaders Shield and a World Club Challenge.
Yes, early season results have been poor but we've been in all but 2 of the games we've played so far and have beaten two decent sides in Hudds and Saints.
The transition was never going to be easy, so writing the coach off 7 games in is woefully premature. Some things are glaringly obvious:
-Sutty is still struggling to get ack to his early 2015 form. This is understandable what with him having been out injured since then. He was also playing alongside McGuire and Aiton then - recently it's been just Burrow.
-Burrow is no longer (if he ever was) a scrum half that can run a game for us. When he last regularly played SH he had a ball-playing and kicking loose (Sinfield) and a halfback that could kick and run at the line (McGuire) alongside him. Both - either due to retirement or injury - are now gone, and Burrow is much better suited to the impact hooker role. If we need a half back to partner Sutty, it should be Lilley, given his organisation and kicking is much better than Burrow's.
-We've been struggling up front, with question marks over Galloway and lack of depth in the second row.
-Mac's selections haven't always made sense - leaving out Singleton, Garbutt, Baldwinson and Achurch for Walters and Keinhorst, for example.
That said - there are 14 games to go till the split and we are 4 points off the 8. Easily recoverable. 6 points off the 4 - likewise. We've had a very tough early season run and our next two games are Wakey and Hull KR, both of which we should win. With key players returning the real question is how do we do over the next few weeks. If with 7 games before the split we're still in the bottom 4, and the coach is still refusing to pick props despite our lack of them, then I'll be concerned.
In the meantime, we have our two most key players (Falloon and McGuire) back on Monday. So we should line up something like:
Loosing 5 games out of your first 7, and in the manner in which they were lost in error strewn performances, should be raising serious concerns now, not months down the line!
I seriously can't understand this nonsensical argument, that past performances and glories excuses our current poor actions out there on the pitch. Dom Manfredi is currently running riot in a Wigan team, displaying an ability that IMHO will make him a contender for this years Man of Steel. Can anyone really claim our wingers are currently, or will likely be within a country mile of Manfredi come September?
Time for Garry to start kicking some ass, and BMD would be a good place to start.
QuoteWorlds Apart="Worlds Apart"Usual suspects coming out the woodwork who've had it in for Mac from Day 1, and are now claiming to have been right all along after 3 Grand Finals, 2 Challenge Cups, a League Leaders Shield and a World Club Challenge.
Yes, early season results have been poor but we've been in all but 2 of the games we've played so far and have beaten two decent sides in Hudds and Saints.
The transition was never going to be easy, so writing the coach off 7 games in is woefully premature. Some things are glaringly obvious:
-Sutty is still struggling to get ack to his early 2015 form. This is understandable what with him having been out injured since then. He was also playing alongside McGuire and Aiton then - recently it's been just Burrow.
-Burrow is no longer (if he ever was) a scrum half that can run a game for us. When he last regularly played SH he had a ball-playing and kicking loose (Sinfield) and a halfback that could kick and run at the line (McGuire) alongside him. Both - either due to retirement or injury - are now gone, and Burrow is much better suited to the impact hooker role. If we need a half back to partner Sutty, it should be Lilley, given his organisation and kicking is much better than Burrow's.
-We've been struggling up front, with question marks over Galloway and lack of depth in the second row.
-Mac's selections haven't always made sense - leaving out Singleton, Garbutt, Baldwinson and Achurch for Walters and Keinhorst, for example.
That said - there are 14 games to go till the split and we are 4 points off the 8. Easily recoverable. 6 points off the 4 - likewise. We've had a very tough early season run and our next two games are Wakey and Hull KR, both of which we should win. With key players returning the real question is how do we do over the next few weeks. If with 7 games before the split we're still in the bottom 4, and the coach is still refusing to pick props despite our lack of them, then I'll be concerned.
In the meantime, we have our two most key players (Falloon and McGuire) back on Monday. So we should line up something like:
Lack of depth in the second row ? Granted Ward is still out and jjb has just returned but we gave still had Ablett, Ferres, keinhorst,Delaney and Achurch. Given the coach wants to flog ferres into every minute of every game we only need one on the bench.
Keinhorst has put in much better performances in the SR to date than Walters or Achurch and deserved his place in the team.
I do agree tho regarding the sutcliffe with Burrow / Lilley issue . I'd rather see Burrow on the bench to interchange with Falloon or just go with four forwards.
Burrow puts in lots of effort but very little results from it. We should be giving McGuire the time to get fit and Lilley the game time he needs to improve.he at least offers a kicking game and bit of organisation.
QuoteWorlds Apart="Worlds Apart"Usual suspects coming out the woodwork who've had it in for Mac from Day 1, and are now claiming to have been right all along after 3 Grand Finals, 2 Challenge Cups, a League Leaders Shield and a World Club Challenge.
Yes, early season results have been poor but we've been in all but 2 of the games we've played so far and have beaten two decent sides in Hudds and Saints.
The transition was never going to be easy, so writing the coach off 7 games in is woefully premature. Some things are glaringly obvious:
-Sutty is still struggling to get ack to his early 2015 form. This is understandable what with him having been out injured since then. He was also playing alongside McGuire and Aiton then - recently it's been just Burrow.
-Burrow is no longer (if he ever was) a scrum half that can run a game for us. When he last regularly played SH he had a ball-playing and kicking loose (Sinfield) and a halfback that could kick and run at the line (McGuire) alongside him. Both - either due to retirement or injury - are now gone, and Burrow is much better suited to the impact hooker role. If we need a half back to partner Sutty, it should be Lilley, given his organisation and kicking is much better than Burrow's.
-We've been struggling up front, with question marks over Galloway and lack of depth in the second row.
-Mac's selections haven't always made sense - leaving out Singleton, Garbutt, Baldwinson and Achurch for Walters and Keinhorst, for example.
That said - there are 14 games to go till the split and we are 4 points off the 8. Easily recoverable. 6 points off the 4 - likewise. We've had a very tough early season run and our next two games are Wakey and Hull KR, both of which we should win. With key players returning the real question is how do we do over the next few weeks. If with 7 games before the split we're still in the bottom 4, and the coach is still refusing to pick props despite our lack of them, then I'll be concerned.
In the meantime, we have our two most key players (Falloon and McGuire) back on Monday. So we should line up something like:
Forget the past. That's gone. We are woeful in both attack and defence. The treble winners have just been beaten by a Castleford team who had 8 players missing. It's a disgrace. McDermott needs to go now.
Pointless telling some folk to calm down, many actually strangely prefer it when things are going wrong and they can rant and be critical and put the world to rights and point out it would've all been fine had the club/coach done what said poster thought. Obvious by people who say it makes for a better forum when Leeds are losing.....yeah people crying that things are sh*t and we're doomed really brings the level up.
Activity certainly increases when things are a struggle - not much to say when you are winning every game as Wigan were pre-SL. If that is the kind of forum that floats your boat good for you.
Adversity is no bad thing once in while it makes the triumph all the more sweet
Oh agreed. And results have certainly been disappointing. That said, look at the timeline without rose-tinted glasses on and it seems a bit more reasonable:
v WARRINGTON: Narrow defeat to a side who are up at the top of the table. Playing with no hooker, we lose our captain & chief playmaker after 20 minutes. Would have drawn but for a slicked penalty kick, with the halves being run by a 21 year old coming back from injury and a 19 year old playing his 5th senior game.
v WIDNES: A Bad performance, compounded by the loss of 3 players to injury during the game against none for them. Injuries worsened by all being in the same area of the team meaning the pack is weakened as forwards move into the backs to cover.
v CATALANS: 4 point margin in the toughest away of the season, carrying a bunch of injuries and with the established weakness in the halves. Missing best prop due to suspension and losing another forward during the game. Difference between the two sides two difficult touchline conversions for Lilley.
v HUDDS: Won
v WIGAN: Bad performance against a side playing well.
v SAINTS: Won, convincingly the better team for most of the game.
v CAS: Sutcliffe's kicking the difference between the two sides.
So a couple of things to note there:
1. We've won 2/3 of our home games, the other lost by 2 points.
2. Most of the losses (Warrington, Catalans, Cas) have been by a single score or less - oftentimes it's been kicks for goal that've been the difference.
3. In not one of those games have we been able to put out our strongest team, and in many we've gone in with key absentees (McGuire, Falloon).
4. In most of those games we've lost players to injury partway through and have had to make up the slack.
Now I DO AGREE that our final play options haven't been great and we've suffered the old problem of 2013-14 of not using the possession and territory we have effectively. But to be claiming that the season is over, or that the coach that just won the treble should be fired is utterly ridiculous.
QuoteWorlds Apart="Worlds Apart"Oh agreed. And results have certainly been disappointing. That said, look at the timeline without rose-tinted glasses on and it seems a bit more reasonable:
v WARRINGTON: Narrow defeat to a side who are up at the top of the table. Playing with no hooker, we lose our captain & chief playmaker after 20 minutes. Would have drawn but for a slicked penalty kick, with the halves being run by a 21 year old coming back from injury and a 19 year old playing his 5th senior game.
v WIDNES: A Bad performance, compounded by the loss of 3 players to injury during the game against none for them. Injuries worsened by all being in the same area of the team meaning the pack is weakened as forwards move into the backs to cover.
v CATALANS: 4 point margin in the toughest away of the season, carrying a bunch of injuries and with the established weakness in the halves. Missing best prop due to suspension and losing another forward during the game. Difference between the two sides two difficult touchline conversions for Lilley.
v HUDDS: Won
v WIGAN: Bad performance against a side playing well.
v SAINTS: Won, convincingly the better team for most of the game.
v CAS: Sutcliffe's kicking the difference between the two sides.
So a couple of things to note there:
1. We've won 2/3 of our home games, the other lost by 2 points.
2. Most of the losses (Warrington, Catalans, Cas) have been by a single score or less - oftentimes it's been kicks for goal that've been the difference.
3. In not one of those games have we been able to put out our strongest team, and in many we've gone in with key absentees (McGuire, Falloon).
4. In most of those games we've lost players to injury partway through and have had to make up the slack.
Now I DO AGREE that our final play options haven't been great and we've suffered the old problem of 2013-14 of not using the possession and territory we have effectively. But to be claiming that the season is over, or that the coach that just won the treble should be fired is utterly ridiculous.'"
Never let facts get in the way of a good old fashioned dose of hysteria...agree with all of the above. What really bothers me at the moment is just the overall dip in standards and the quality of what has been on show in general (including Warrington and Wigan) showing no sign of improving any time soon. But it really does need to!!
QuoteWorlds Apart="Worlds Apart"Oh agreed. And results have certainly been disappointing. That said, look at the timeline without rose-tinted glasses on and it seems a bit more reasonable:
v WARRINGTON: Narrow defeat to a side who are up at the top of the table. Playing with no hooker, we lose our captain & chief playmaker after 20 minutes. Would have drawn but for a slicked penalty kick, with the halves being run by a 21 year old coming back from injury and a 19 year old playing his 5th senior game.
v WIDNES: A Bad performance, compounded by the loss of 3 players to injury during the game against none for them. Injuries worsened by all being in the same area of the team meaning the pack is weakened as forwards move into the backs to cover.
v CATALANS: 4 point margin in the toughest away of the season, carrying a bunch of injuries and with the established weakness in the halves. Missing best prop due to suspension and losing another forward during the game. Difference between the two sides two difficult touchline conversions for Lilley.
v HUDDS: Won
v WIGAN: Bad performance against a side playing well.
v SAINTS: Won, convincingly the better team for most of the game.
v CAS: Sutcliffe's kicking the difference between the two sides.
So a couple of things to note there:
1. We've won 2/3 of our home games, the other lost by 2 points.
2. Most of the losses (Warrington, Catalans, Cas) have been by a single score or less - oftentimes it's been kicks for goal that've been the difference.
3. In not one of those games have we been able to put out our strongest team, and in many we've gone in with key absentees (McGuire, Falloon).
4. In most of those games we've lost players to injury partway through and have had to make up the slack.
Now I DO AGREE that our final play options haven't been great and we've suffered the old problem of 2013-14 of not using the possession and territory we have effectively. But to be claiming that the season is over, or that the coach that just won the treble should be fired is utterly ridiculous.'"
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